For you TDC. This was an early mockup http://www.zzperformance.com/miscftp/IMG_6818.jpg

Not sure where they finally put the thing, though.

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04 Indy SS build #972
XP, TOG's, Lightning injectors, 2.8 pulley, 105 CC springs, Wizaired, 3.29 gears, tripleedgeperformance ported blower, machined LIM, 180* tstat, RS12YC@.053, FP rewire, Alt rewire, stage 1 V boost, PRJ wires, Stage 2 IC

well I see your point. I mean I have never made adjustments or corrections to just one bank and not the other. I mean when i add fuel I add it to the whole engine. Same when I take away fuel. Some skew there cylinders but I have not even done that.My only concern would be If I would get any different readings on the narrowband now that it's only reading one bank vs. reading the two banks combined. Maybe this will frustruate me enough that i will just go get a damn wideband and stop beating around the bush. I should of had one a long time ago.


FWIW I still cant see where the o2 is exactly on the finshed headers. And yes the s&s does have the o2 in the same location. Thats one of the reasons I changed my mind and went with the togs.



So what do you guys think. Togs or The new ZZP Headers? It's getting to be about that time so i need to make a decision.

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1999 Silver GTP~HP Tuners~XP cam~ZZP FS Intercooler~#4 FMHE~ZZP 78mm Billet Throttlebody~LQ4 MAF~Lucas 42.5's~ZZP SS Headers~2.8 MPS~PRJ fuel logs~Ported & Polished S/C~TDCRacing FWI ~Built Tranny-3.29's-7/8's chain-Intense forged Input Shaft~

Running mid-high 12's
Get you're TDCRacing Fenderwell Intake Today!

Im sure it's suppose to be this way but has anyone noticed how the 3'' flange on the exit is cocked sideways? Or does it just appear that way?

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1999 Silver GTP~HP Tuners~XP cam~ZZP FS Intercooler~#4 FMHE~ZZP 78mm Billet Throttlebody~LQ4 MAF~Lucas 42.5's~ZZP SS Headers~2.8 MPS~PRJ fuel logs~Ported & Polished S/C~TDCRacing FWI ~Built Tranny-3.29's-7/8's chain-Intense forged Input Shaft~

Running mid-high 12's
Get you're TDCRacing Fenderwell Intake Today!

^^thats how it is supposed to be, look at a down pipe and you can see it

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2002 GT...Wizardair, ZZP 2.5 o/r dp, Special Eddition two-tone leather interior added, HUD added, 12" Brake Upgrade, ZZP strut tower bars, gmpp sway bars,-6an braided SS fuel hoses , Hptuned, Top Swaped.....
I've got Boost!! I've got only 1.5* KR left my poor L36 block.....

I love the long primaries. I am also inquisitive about where the O2 sensor is in final.

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You cant have success without faliure, and you cant fail i you dont attempt.
98 gtp daytona pace car replica.
06 se gold
92 ford bronco

I'd get the TOGs, they've been proven for years and are rock solid TDC. You can't go wrong with a set of those. Lets face it, the ZZP headers with be trial and error for awhile until they get all the bugs worked out. The first batch ain't going to be perfect, no ones is.

Still wondering on there O2 sensor placement, surely they won't put it there for the final sets...

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Shawn W. Larsen


'99 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP ___ '00 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP ___ '07 Chevy Trailblazer SS

There is a thread about the headers over on cgp, where Someone explains why the O2 sensor is ok in the crossover. I've heard this was fine from a couple of non shadetree people before he ever brought it up, and the reasoning was the same. I have no idea myself, but am just passing on info.

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04 Indy SS build #972
XP, TOG's, Lightning injectors, 2.8 pulley, 105 CC springs, Wizaired, 3.29 gears, tripleedgeperformance ported blower, machined LIM, 180* tstat, RS12YC@.053, FP rewire, Alt rewire, stage 1 V boost, PRJ wires, Stage 2 IC

I donno, i'm still a big believer that both banks need to be read, with it in the crossover you're only getting info from 3 cylinders. Plus slip fit connections are a pain in the ass anyway. Try removing those headers in a few years on a daily driver from the northern states not to mention on and off several times.

I'd just about opt for S&s headers over these. Your not gaining much other than materal and size IMO. I expected more from them than these.

With flanges and a proper O2 placement, they'd be pretty decent although I believe ceramic coating should be offered for these too...

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Shawn W. Larsen


'99 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP ___ '00 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP ___ '07 Chevy Trailblazer SS

Some good points.

I image ZZP is trying to keep the price low enough, without giving them away so that people will buy them. In the wbody market, price is more important that quality. First question is how much. Once the price has been set, then comes the quality questions.

If truely ultimate headers hit the market, as in TOG's with an adjustment so you didn't have to use a bent tranny dipstick, ball and socket crossover joints, bolt-in DP..etc the price would be well beyond $1000. There wouldn't be many Ultimate Headers sold to our group. I would have paid the extra, and so would a handful of others, but that's not enough to support making these.

This is unfortunate, but understandable. I know my son can't afford pricey mods for his GTP, even though he wants them. A while back he asked me "Dad can I have your car when you die?"

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04 Indy SS build #972
XP, TOG's, Lightning injectors, 2.8 pulley, 105 CC springs, Wizaired, 3.29 gears, tripleedgeperformance ported blower, machined LIM, 180* tstat, RS12YC@.053, FP rewire, Alt rewire, stage 1 V boost, PRJ wires, Stage 2 IC

I still don't see what the point of having all the cylinders measured is. You think if one is running bad that the O2 sensor can really pick it out of the gasses from the other five? The PCM might think they're all running a little rich or lean, but not enough for any big changes and you're f'd anyway.

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2004 Impala LS - got some mods
NAIOA Moderator

Making you think twice before picking on Impalas